Alan Lomax, John Bishop, and Mississippi Authority for Educational Television producers discuss to "The Land Where the Blues Began" (part 1)

Note: Two principal problems: need to avoid pedagogical tone and need an overview. Discussion of possible cuts and need to avoid condescension. Ruth [last name unknown], an African American, says that because many black people are still ashamed of the blues there is a need to show the beauty and dignity of the people. Alan Lomax replies that the people recorded seemed delighted with the film when it was played back to them. Ruth says people from the city of Jackson look down on behavior exhibited in the film. They may feel that a white presenter is presenting caricatures of black people. Alan Lomax on the need to overcome shame of origins, a feeling in every culture. Soviet Union will not permit filming of people in the country in bare feet. People newly arrived in the towns are ashamed of country origins. Attitudes of shame are phony, a disservice to culture. Documentation of actual dress, habits, behavior is valuable. Emotionally speaking, however, Ruth's point is taken. Whole problem of folklore movement is to overcome these feelings. Maybe he shouldn't have been the presenter. Ruth: People are very touchy. There are class prejudices of hill country people towards those of the Delta. I am from Jackson and the blues belongs to the people of Jackson as well. My mother would say you're just showing people acting foolish. Consensus: Warmth and respect that Alan shows in interviews does not come across in his narration. Alan Lomax: This was my first narration on camera and I am camera shy, stood in hot sun for hours, wasn't relaxed. Others have problem with using black person as narrator puppeting Alan's views. Alan Lomax: Friends at BBC felt my presence important to make it interesting for European viewers. Jean: Some black viewers might object to seeing a white man telling the black man's story, but you have credibility with educated, though not with general, audiences. Unfortunately prejudice is still rife in Mississippi, some white viewers will say: See, they are still Africans. We must try to prevent this. I don't want Ruth to be ashamed. Alan Lomax: I'm putting my reputation on the line. 1: This is America's unique song form and everybody knows it. 2: This also belongs to the Mississippi Delta. This is the best thing we have. John Bishop: It's basically a marketing problem. Need to reinforce who Alan is and why what he says matters. Alan Lomax: John Bishop cut out what I thought was my best line: "The blues once heard can never be forgotten" That's something you can't say about any other music except Flamenco. Ruth on juxtaposing blues and spirituals, many black people still think blues is from the devil and not to be mentioned in same breath with spirituals. Ruth belongs to African Episcopal Methodist Church where they have four choirs, only one of which is a "rock" choir. The scenes of shouting during the conversion experience may put off many black viewers to whom such things are as foreign as they are to whites. Alan Lomax: It is not a Holiness Church, but a Baptist one. Actually, only one woman is shouting. Decision to put back slower, more calm parts of the ceremony to balance the more emotional scenes. Brief discussion of influence of charismatic movements on mainstream religions. Problem of sexual innuendo in blues. They play the conversion scene. Alan Lomax: It's better than Sandburg. Very moving, not hysterical. Discussion of toasting and signifying. Alan Lomax on how a two-hour story, told and received as though it really happened, was the same as a story associated with Davy Crockett. Gannett's snuffbox needed for diddley bow to work. Extent to which scene of man singing going across the field with a mule was staged. Ruth on phrase about "saluting the earth": That's white lightning talking. Alan Lomax: I have seen these same pelvic movements made in relation to drums in the Sudan and other parts of Africa, in the Bahamas, in Haiti, Tobago. It is an old African/Polynesian custom. Tropical, not necessarily sexual. Part of culture. Anecdote about pelvic movement. Alan Lomax: When I got back from England I heard all the stuff I used to collect right on television. I went to the Dick Clark show, where an old friend I used to know from radio was the producer. He said, "Alan, what are you doing in this cess pool of corruption? You, whom I always thought of as the purest of the pure." (These teenagers were practically children. Bobby Darin had his arm around a black girl. They were pals. He said "I have a [?] in my heart. You should have seen what trouble we had when we went to the South.") I said, "What corruption?" He said, "Don't you see??! Don't you see? They're moving their pelvises!!" I said, "Well, what's wrong with that?" "They're doing it for money! There doing it for money!" Then this nice Jewish boy went back into the control room to produce more programs. Ruth's graduate thesis in linguistics was on children's games and the stability of rhythm versus changes in text in game songs. Alan Lomax offers to send a paper he has written on shifts of texts in songs. "Mine has always been a linguistic approach." Serial domesticity. Feedback about what each had found most exciting in the film. Relation of hill country as repository of older culture and traditions for the changing Delta. Highways (river, railroads, and roads) brought change. Differing definitions of the Delta for outsiders versus those who live in Mississippi.